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Discussions regarding DeepSeek often involve notion that America is an "idea" factory, & China is a "scale-out" factory. These arguments sometimes use heavy labels like "theft" and "enemy." I couldn't help but wonder if this was simply a factor of "place in time." Countries evolve on different timelines, & having a low-cost, industrious work force is part what positions you ideally to be a "scale-out" nation. And you may move past that. The interview with DeepSeek founder makes it clear he is an "idea" person. So I had a discussion with ChatGPT. Please check it out: Q: Returning to the topic of original innovation—now that the economy is entering a downturn and capital is in a cold cycle, do you think this will further stifle original innovation? Liang Wenfeng: I actually don’t think so. As China’s industrial structure adjusts, there will be a greater reliance on hardcore technological innovation. When many people realize that quickly made money often comes down to being in the right place at the right time, they will be more willing to bend down and pursue genuine innovation. Liang Wenfeng: I actually don’t think so. As China’s industrial structure adjusts, there will be a greater reliance on hardcore technological innovation. When many people realize that quickly made money often comes down to being in the right place at the right time, they will be more willing to bend down and pursue genuine innovation. Q: So you’re optimistic about it? Liang Wenfeng: I grew up in a fifth-tier city in Guangdong in the '80s. My father was a primary school teacher. In the '90s, there were plenty of money-making opportunities in Guangdong—many parents would come to my house, convinced that education was useless. But looking back now, people’s mindsets have changed. Because making money isn’t so easy anymore—even driving a taxi might not be an opportunity. An entire generation’s mindset has shifted. In the future, hardcore innovation will become more and more common. It might be hard to understand now because society as a whole needs to be educated by the facts. Once society sees that those who pursue hardcore innovation succeed, the collective mindset will change. We just need a pile of facts and a process.